The On The Menu Podcast Features Epicurean Pantry
September 22, 2024: Top Quality Olive Oil and the Health Benefits of Black Garlic
We’re excited to share that Epicurean Pantry was recently featured on On The Menu, a renowned food, drink, and travel podcast hosted by husband-and-wife duo Ann and Peter Haigh. Since 2004, Ann—an experienced food critic, writer, and former restaurant owner—and Peter—an avid traveler and wine connoisseur—have been interviewing top chefs, food producers, and culinary experts from around the world.
In this episode, we had the pleasure of discussing our journey with black garlic and why we source our premium products from Greece. Tune in to hear about our black garlic’s exceptional flavor profile, incredible health benefits, and how it can elevate any dish!.
Listen to the podcast!
Podcast Transcription
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;37;04
Ann Haigh
Well, listeners, we're going to be talking to Lisa Zeitel and her company, and we're going to talk a little bit about the backstory of that. It's called Epicurean Pantry, which would be a lot of things and probably may become a lot of things right now. Her real breakthrough is her product featuring black garlic, which is a mysterious ingredient that, we discovered actually in 2009.
00;00;37;07 - 00;01;03;03
Ann Haigh
And, it was being produced in, Korea. And by these guys, they called us on their time, and it was in the middle of the night over there. And then the next thing I know, the whole market exploded [inaudible] happened on the face of the globe, interested and working with a unique flavor and the health benefits, as you put it, as black garlic.
00;01;03;05 - 00;01;08;15
Ann Haigh
But let's go back to what did you do in your former life?
00;01;08;18 - 00;01;40;11
Lisa Zeitel
So, thanks Anne and Peter, for having me. In my former life I had a background in nutrition. I was a nutritionist. I got a, master's degree in public health. I went on to work in public health, and eventually, I migrated to healthcare consulting. So I worked for large benefit consulting firms for about 30 to 35 years and became an executive and consultant to primarily Fortune 50 and Fortune 100 clients.
00;01;40;13 - 00;01;56;23
Lisa Zeitel
And I specialized in the in the area of prescription drugs, you know, trying to help cure people once they were sick. The beauty of what I'm doing now is that I'm trying to prevent them from getting sick via food.
00;01;56;26 - 00;02;28;23
Ann Haigh
Well, so, you know, with nutrition, this background, you must have been very aware. Also, I might add, from what I've read, is that you’ve been a lifelong foodie. So you've always been interested in food and to find something with all these health benefits, which is supposedly black garlic and that's also delicious. You must have really for a quiet little or loud little interior cheer.
00;02;28;26 - 00;02;52;24
Lisa Zeitel
Yes. It was. It happened very serendipitously. I was celebrating my retirement from my 40 plus year corporate career sailing in Greece with some friends, and we were on a catamaran with a captain and a chef host. And the chef host, it turns out, is now my Greek supplier. And I was not familiar with black garlic before that trip.
00;02;52;27 - 00;03;08;03
Lisa Zeitel
He incorporated it into our meals throughout the week. I fell in love with it the more I learned about it, the more I tasted it. And a light bulb went off in my head. I knew I was going to find a second act. I just didn't know what it was going to be.
00;03;08;05 - 00;03;24;18
Lisa Zeitel
And this feels like the perfect second act. It combines my love for food and my love for good health and nutrition. And it’s just so much more gratifying than what I did in my prior life. And I was very successful at that.
00;03;24;20 - 00;03;37;24
Ann Haigh
Yeah. Well, and Greece, I mean, so all your processing and producing, it's done in Greece? So you've got Greek partners?
00;03;37;27 - 00;04;06;09
Lisa Zeitel
Yes. So the white garlic or fresh garlic is grown in Greece. It's grown in a town called Platykampos, if I'm pronouncing it correctly. It's a town, where the climate, it's renowned for having some of the tastiest and nutrient-rich white garlic, fresh garlic in the world. So you're starting with a premium product. And then my producer or supplier cpnsciously produces black garlic.
00;04;06;09 - 00;04;19;10
Lisa Zeitel
He's a computer engineer and his partner is a chef. They merge modern technology in heat chambers with traditional Korean methods to create black garlic.
00;04;19;10 - 00;04;33;17
Ann Haigh
And, yeah, it's really a slow ferment, isn't it? The way the Koreans did it. That's what I got from my first interview.
00;04;33;19 - 00;04;45;24
Lisa Zeitel
Yes., correct, it’s 40 to 60 days. They control the temperature and the humidity, and the garlic literally turns black and becomes sticky and licorice-like.
00;04;45;27 - 00;05;09;24
Ann Haigh
Yeah, but you sent us samples and you can see, that it is quite different from white garlic. You have black garlic cloves. What are some of the other things you have in your lineup of products featuring black garlic? You have pearls, honey... Go ahead.
00;05;09;26 - 00;05;50;08
Lisa Zeitel
I have the cloves, I have a paste. The paste is 90% black garlic and 10% Greek pine tree honey. I have honey which is a double superfood because it's 70% Greek pine tree honey and 30% black garlic. I have a ketchup which is a naturally made Greek ketchup with infused black garlic and then I have black garlic pearls, which are these beautiful little pearls like balsamic pearls or caviar, essentially, all plant-based with some spices, a drop of coffee, a drop of honey,
00;05;50;11 - 00;05;58;16
Lisa Zeitel
Agar Agar, and it sits in a neutral oil in the jar. I drain the oil before serving it.
00;05;58;18 - 00;06;02;06
Peter Haigh
So Lisa, it's grown in Greece?
00;06;02;08 - 00;06;04;22
Lisa Zeitel
Yeah, it’s grown in Greece.
00;06;04;24 - 00;06;26;06
Peter Haigh
Interesting thing I can remember encountering garlic in the flesh just probably only about 15 years ago when we were in the Italian province of Puglia and we were driving out of Puglia and, you could smell the garlic infusing our vehicle.
00;06;26;08 - 00;06;27;19
Lisa Zeitel
Wow!
00;06;27;21 - 00;06;45;21
Ann Haigh
Yeah. I love Greece by the way, haven't been for a long time, but, the economy there was very shaky, a very bold move of you to move into a business deal with a Greek. producer.
00;06;45;23 - 00;07;13;03
Lisa Zeitel
I have a wonderful supplier. They sell throughout Europe. They sell in Australia. They do a lot of business in the Netherlands. My supplier spends a portion of the year in the Netherlands because part of his family lives there. And they sell to all the Michelin restaurants in Greece, and restaurants elsewhere.
00;07;13;06 - 00;07;39;25
Lisa Zeitel
They’re very, very eager to get into the US market. So it's been wonderful so far, knock on wood. There are some constraints, and eventually, they may move some of the production to Amsterdam or elsewhere in the Netherlands. Just from a shipping perspective, it might be easier, but it hasn't posed a challenge yet, so hopefully, it won't in the future.
00;07;39;28 - 00;08;07;04
Ann Haigh
Right. Well a lot of importing companies have a lot of trouble with the American rules on imports. We hear over and over again. I mean, Spain has a real problem with the stuff coming in, you know, and how many years before they were allowed to bring in the ham.
00;08;07;06 - 00;08;07;15
Lisa Zeitel
Oh, wow.
00;08;07;21 - 00;08;39;21
Ann Haigh
You're so experienced in business as well as nutrition and the taste of the food and the culture of food. This is a big, bold jump to get from a structured corporate environment into an entrepreneurial one. I mean, how did you manage that?
00;08;39;23 - 00;09;06;03
Lisa Zeitel
That's a great question. You know, when I first started in consulting, the firm I worked at, you know, like many businesses, was younger in terms of its business age. They were more entrepreneurial. I developed businesses within that consulting firm. I later moved to another very large consulting firm and built businesses there.
00;09;06;06 - 00;09;31;03
Lisa Zeitel
I left at the time when there was no more entrepreneurial feeling whatsoever. It was pure corporate. So this just feels wonderful because there are no boundaries, there are no rules, there are no, you know, approvals that I need to get from other people that I have no control over. So I’m really, honestly loving it.
00;09;31;05 - 00;09;54;02
Lisa Zeitel
I have a lot to learn. But, you know, I love the fact that I'm connecting with lots of people. So far in just over a year, I'm satisfied with our growth. I want to continue to grow. We're in 26 stores and a few restaurants as well, and hopefully, we'll continue to see steady growth.
00;09;54;02 - 00;10;24;28
Lisa Zeitel
I feel passionately about these products, and I know from my past career that passion goes a long way in terms of selling. When I came back from Greece and hadn't ever experienced black garlic here, I went out and bought other black garlic products. There’s not a tremendous amount of competition here. The biggest challenge is educating people, making them aware of black garlic, and having them taste it and experience it.
00;10;25;00 - 00;10;43;17
Lisa Zeitel
That's really my biggest challenge. But this product, in my mind, is so superior to anything that I've tasted here that’s grown in the US. I love to support the US, but in this case, it's not renowned for having the best quality garlic in the world.
00;10;43;20 - 00;10;46;15
Ann Haigh
To put it mildly. You're right.
00;10;46;18 - 00;10;52;12
Lisa Zeitel
I just feel like this is such a special product.
00;10;52;15 - 00;11;05;15
Ann Haigh
Now, our interview with the Korean guys was in 2009. But why didn't it take off right away?
00;11;05;18 - 00;11;25;01
Lisa Zeitel
You know, I don't know, because there are a lot of chefs who are aware of it. Some chefs use it. Some chefs promote it in the sense they make it clear on the menu that it's black garlic. And then I sell in specialty shops that are run by and owned by chefs,
00;11;25;03 - 00;11;37;26
Lisa Zeitel
and they tell me they don't always make it explicit that there's black garlic in it. They just want people to enjoy and experience the flavor.
00;11;37;28 - 00;11;46;29
Ann Haigh
Chefs are experimenting with it that I know. How would you describe the flavor of black garlic?
00;11;47;01 - 00;12;17;12
Lisa Zeitel
To me, it has more of like a tamarind, date-like, balsamic type of flavor. Some people say it's akin to, like, molasses. It's rich and complex. It just has such a different flavor. None of the pungent odor or taste of white garlic. It's more smooth.
00;12;17;14 - 00;12;29;12
Ann Haigh
It was a magical little move to make that change. The flavor profile of a whole dish changes.
00;12;29;15 - 00;12;31;07
Lisa Zeitel
Yes.
00;12;31;09 - 00;12;52;23
Ann Haigh
I can't remember how it was ever discovered. We talked to the Korean guys about that. But it didn't tell them how to achieve the same thing as it happened in nature.
00;12;52;25 - 00;13;20;25
Lisa Zeitel
And I wonder historically when they first started, you know, playing around with the fermentation method, if they knew that they were onto something from a health benefits side because it becomes a superfood once it's transitioned to black garlic, it almost triples in antioxidants, it’s heart healthy. It helps to regulate your blood pressure.
00;13;20;25 - 00;13;34;00
Lisa Zeitel
It helps to lower your, cholesterol. It provides incredible immune support. It can also help with your digestive health. It's a prebiotic. It. And now there's…
00;13;34;07 - 00;13;39;02
Ann Haigh
It doesn't work against vampires.
00;13;39;04 - 00;13;42;08
Lisa Zeitel
I don't know about that we have to test it!
00;13;42;13 - 00;13;54;00
Peter Haigh
Sweatheart, didn't the guys from Japan explain that they had created a new way of processing garlic to make black garlic?
00;13;54;02 - 00;14;07;05
Ann Haigh
Yeah, I think that was the big contribution of the process itself. So how does your process differ from the original Korean process?
00;14;07;07 - 00;14;30;04
Lisa Zeitel
My supplier tries to follow that process, but with modern heat chambers and digital technology to control the temperature and humidity. In spirit, they follow the traditional Korean process.
00;14;30;07 - 00;15;05;08
Ann Haigh
People don't know how to, actually use it. I think it’s good that you have an outline of ways to use each product. You have a little chart with each form of black garlic, like the pearls, the honey, and possible uses.
00;15;05;09 - 00;15;21;02
Ann Haigh
You have suggestions for how to use it. Yeah, I mean for myself that may help. I think a lot of your job is going to be education.
00;15;21;04 - 00;15;43;13
Lisa Zeitel
Yes. You're absolutely right. And that's part of what I love about it as well. So I'm trying to do that. I do a lot of in-store tastings, which I really enjoy. I love seeing someone put it in their mouth, and then I love seeing the expression once they've tasted it. It's a lot more gratifying than saving very large companies millions of dollars. They don’t always thank you.
00;15;43;15 - 00;16;08;25
Lisa Zeitel
I enjoy the in-store tastings. I started a blog on our website. And I have posted an article about the amazing benefits of black garlic. I'm digging into each of those benefits, trying to use different avenues and opportunities to continue to educate.
00;16;08;28 - 00;16;24;25
Ann Haigh
So now we're brought to this point of where does somebody once we’ve sold them on this concept of black garlic. Where and how does one get a hold of it?
00;16;24;28 - 00;17;03;02
Lisa Zeitel
Our business is located in Connecticut, very close to the New York border. The stores that I'm in are primarily located in Connecticut in Fairfield County and Westchester, New York, and New Jersey. We also sell through Faire, an online marketplace for independent retailers. I'm hoping to form a relationship with a distributor very shortly, and that will expand my ability to reach more and more stores.
00;17;03;02 - 00;17;09;09
Lisa Zeitel
I have exclusive distribution rights for the US. So I'm just in the process of building the business.
00;17;09;10 - 00;17;16;02
Ann Haigh
That's good. Yeah. So you're the only authorized distributor?
00;17;16;05 - 00;17;17;24
Lisa Zeitel
Yes.
00;17;17;27 - 00;17;21;06
Ann Haigh
I've heard of the product from Greece.
00;17;21;08 - 00;17;35;24
Lisa Zeitel
Yes. That was part of the appeal to me. And I sell through my website. I am also starting a TikTok shop, but I think there's a real benefit to the in-store, shopping experience.
00;17;35;26 - 00;17;36;10
Ann Haigh
Right?
00;17;36;15 - 00;17;44;15
Lisa Zeitel
There's a lot of education I can do online, but I think in-person is a great way for people to taste the product and then buy it.
00;17;44;17 - 00;17;50;18
Ann Haigh
And what about giving our listeners your website?
00;17;50;20 - 00;18;05;13
Lisa Zeitel
My website is epicurean-pantry.com.
00;18;05;16 - 00;18;08;11
Ann Haigh
Is it a slash?
00;18;08;14 - 00;18;12;23
Lisa Zeitel
No, just a dash. epicurean-pantry.com.
00;18;12;25 - 00;18;58;06
Ann Haigh
Oh, dash. Okay. Now, in some of the copy that was sent to me from your publicist, it indicated that this the applications, in producing this product, is pointing you in the direction of expanding the the products that you handle. What does it mean by that? I mean, are you planning on other kinds of products or different uses for the black garlic or, or what is your future for Epicurean Pantry?
00;18;58;08 - 00;19;14;06
Lisa Zeitel
So my supplier currently produces several more black garlic products. Some of them are refrigerated, which I don't plan to import. He partners with some artisanal cheese makers, and they have a couple of black garlic cheeses, which are delicious.
00;19;14;06 - 00;19;16;00
Ann Haigh
That sounds good.
00;19;16;02 - 00;19;17;20
Lisa Zeitel
Yeah.
00;19;17;23 - 00;19;21;16
Ann Haigh
Where do you find those black garlic cheeses?
00;19;21;19 - 00;19;44;19
Lisa Zeitel
Those he sells in Europe. He sells to the largest chain of cheese stores in the Netherlands. And he also partners with an artisanal sausage maker for a black garlic sausage. They are delicious, but those would be more challenging to import.
00;19;44;21 - 00;19;57;06
Ann Haigh
Oh yes, especially the sausage. Even cheese is a tough go. I mean, there are all these European cheeses that may never get into the US.
00;19;57;08 - 00;20;27;13
Lisa Zeitel
Yeah. So I thought that would be more of a challenge than I was ready for. And he also has a black garlic mustard, which I'm going to add to the collection. I had sampled it at the fancy food show and it got very positive reviews. He has a black garlic mayonnaise, which, is very nice. You can make it yourself with the black garlic paste and mayonnaise, but it's nice to have it already prepared.
00;20;27;16 - 00;20;45;11
Lisa Zeitel
That's another opportunity. He's working on a black garlic olive oil or olive oil infused with black garlic. He's working on balsamic vinegar with black garlic. And he's also working on a black garlic powder.
00;20;45;13 - 00;21;06;15
Ann Haigh
Wow. It seems for me as I'm talking to you, I can just envision that awake or asleep, you're always involved with uses and opportunities for black garlic. Is that true?
00;21;06;18 - 00;21;35;24
Lisa Zeitel
Yes. And I'm fortunate I have a sister who had a second act many years ago,. She went from a stockbroker to a chef, and she lives close by to me. We have a lot of fun developing recipes and she loves to experiment with black garlic. I'm going to be posting more recipes on our website to make it easier for people to figure out how to use it.
00;21;35;26 - 00;21;48;19
Ann Haigh
Well, I mean, I, I find your suggestion very useful and tempting. The one I can't get my head around is black garlic and chocolate chip cookies.
00;21;48;22 - 00;22;15;29
Lisa Zeitel
You know, a woman, artisanal ice cream maker in a town near me in Fairfield County, sells small batch artisanal ice cream. She drops it every week or so. You get a text when it’s ready to drop. She produces it out of a kitchen in a restaurant in New Canaan, CT. It’s called Karla’s Kreamery.
00;22;16;02 - 00;22;36;20
Lisa Zeitel
Last year for Halloween she used black garlic paste. She put a little black garlic paste in chocolate chip cookies. They were delicious. She crumbled the cookies in her vanilla white miso ice cream base. I tasted a pint thinking I’d share it with friends. I ended up devoured the whole pint all at once.
00;22;36;22 - 00;22;45;04
Ann Haigh
Yes. I trust your word on it. But I think I'd have to taste it to believe it.
00;22;45;07 - 00;22;52;16
Lisa Zeitel
Actually, the Koreans love to dip the black garlic cloves in choclate.
00;22;52;19 - 00;22;53;26
Ann Haigh
Really?
00;22;53;28 - 00;22;54;12
Lisa Zeitel
Yeah.
00;22;54;12 - 00;23;04;07
Ann Haigh
For that, I mean I can't remember ever encountering it in Greece.
00;23;04;10 - 00;23;31;04
Lisa Zeitel
No, I had not heard of it until I was on this sailboat. Everything just happened very serendipitously for me in a very positive way. I met this chef supplier. I came home, my friends who I traveled with, they have very dear friends where they live, who have a consultancy helping new brands and startups, mostly in the consumer product goods industry.
00;23;31;06 - 00;23;45;07
Lisa Zeitel
They helped me with my business plan. Along the way, everything just felt serendipitous. That's my word. Serendipitous. So far, so good.
00;23;45;10 - 00;24;17;29
Ann Haigh
Well, I wish you continuing success with Epicurean Pantry, and you're going to be exploring, the wonderful black garlic with many more uses than I could ever have dreamed of. Thanks to Lisa's research. And believe me, it's going to be in your life for a long while. As an upcoming market here.
00;24;18;02 - 00;24;33;20
Ann Haigh
And I just thank you for taking all the time and trouble talking to us about your products, Lisa. So much continuing success and keep us posted.
00;24;33;23 - 00;24;38;00
Lisa Zeitel
I will. Thank you so much., Ann and, Peter. I really appreciate, this opportunity.
00;24;38;00 - 00;24;40;17
Ann Haigh
Thank you. Thank you.
00;24;40;20 - 00;24;42;08
Lisa Zeitel
Okay. Bye bye.
00;24;42;11 - 00;24;43;29
Ann Haigh
Bye.
